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  "Accepted" Imbalances |
09/08/09 07:31:08 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Shig |
I think over the course of this
expansion, there has been much debate over tank balance. With 4
tank classes, it can get complex to balance the tanks and keep them
"different" enough to make them unique (which is VERY
important btw). But we are nearly a year into the expansion and we
have come to a place where we (the community) have a fairly decent
grasp on what tank balance "should" look like. I am not proclaiming
to speak for the community, just basing that statement off of the
more prominent and accomplished posters who back up their
statements with hard math. Disclaimers aside, lets move to the
point.
I think the community is willing to accept certain things being
"Imbalanced" with certain caveats. For example:
DK's have no "block" mechanic
DK's have no AP debuff
Lets say for the sake of argument, that they were in a 10 man, that
was thrown together, that didn't have a ret paladin, warrior, or
feral druid or warlock. (I have been in such a 10 man on my DK
pre-nerf). There would be no AP debuff on the boss. A DK, properly
specced, geared, etc... would be at an obvious disadvantage. The
disadvantage can be overcome with skill, but the disadvantage
exists.
I think the community would be "ok" with DK's having an armor
advantage to compensate for that. Not a game changing (30% less
damage taken) amount, but enough to at least split the difference.
That would give them a small advantage during fights where the AP
debuff was present, but not cripple them when it wasn't.
Would this be "balanced?" No. Would the community completely
rage about it, if this was the only advantage a DK tank? As long as
it wasn't as powerful a difference as AD, I don't think it would be
enough to write home about.
TLDR: The community will accept imbalances as long as they are not
GLARING imbalances.
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09/09/09 09:05:25 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
Basic Toolset: Relatively equal Hp, armor, some kind of block
mechanic, attack speed reduction, ap reduction, and
cooldowns.
For your list, you added attack speed and ap reduction. Other tanks
might add on-demand AE threat generation or a single target snap
aggro tool or a resource system not dependent on being targeted.
The basic toolset isn't a universal truth. It's in the eye of the
beholder.
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09/09/09 09:08:31 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
I just do not understand why GC's stand on this issue is that, as
long as a large statistical majority of tanks are not being
replaced, there is no need for adjustment.
What would your test be for when adjustment is appropriate?
Community consensus?
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09/09/09 09:44:53 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
Tanks shouldn't have to rely on other tanks to apply debuffs. What
happened to "bring the player, not the class?"
Fortunately, we don't usually ask you to solo these
encounters.
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09/09/09 10:04:42 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
Why did you give all tanks thunderclap? You could have allowed
other classes to provide attack speed slow to a prot pally or feral
druid since you don't "solo these encounters"...... but you
didn't.
Thunderclap is used as an AE threat tool in 5-player heroics. We
found certain classes struggled tanking those instances if they
lacked certain tools. An AP debuff isn't really needed in the
5-player runs though. It is as mandatory as debuffs get in a raid
environment, but there are plenty of ways to get it.
We are even less likely to homogenize the classes by sharing all of
their tools around than we are to make the armor, health and
cooldowns of the tanking classes identical. The point I was trying
to make is that "The community generally agrees on what tanks need
to be balanced" (essentially the thrust of the original quote I
referenced) is a difficult point of view to support. There are
constant threads of "We can't do our job without X." We don't just
dismiss those concerns out of hand, but you need to argue from the
stance that you literally can't do your job, not that everyone
needs all of the same abilities, because the latter just isn't our
goal.
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