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  Bosses won't hit for 40k. |
09/03/09 12:54:49 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Resity |
So, we all should remember GC saying
that bosses in CC shouldn't hit for 40k like they did in Ulduar,
but from all the things I've seen heroic mode is hitting that hard
once again.
So, the question once again becomes why is tank balance being
ignored to the extent it is when you clearly designed the bosses to
hit just as hard as Ulduar, so the same issues that happened there
will happen in ToC hard for most guilds that aren't top world
guilds?
Why tank anything but a druid or a paladin as a tank on a boss that
can easily gib another tank much faster, or that takes much spikier
damage.
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09/03/09 02:57:08 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
I still stand by the statement. Most
of your examples seem to be Gormok's Impale which has a lot more
going on (dots, tank transitions) than just hitting a single tank
really hard. Those encounters drop really high level gear. If
you're tanking him with item level 226 (because you've only been in
the instance 5 weeks and maybe your tanks haven't gotten a lot of
drops) then you've got some deficit to make up. The good news is
that because of the way loot works in that instance, you can choose
to gear your tanks really quickly if you so desire.
Yes, you will still need to work to keep your tanks up. That's just
part of hard mode. But my suspicion is still that the community
won't jump to tank class choice as the explanation for why a
certain fight is easier or harder for them. Or, more realistically,
they still will, but... alas.
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09/04/09 01:48:10 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
This thread has sort of devolved into a discussion of which tanks
are best for the Heroic Beasts encounter, but regarding the OP I'd
note that Heroic Beasts is really the only big-number fight in the
zone. Yeah, tanks take some massive damage. That's not the case for
the other fights in the zone--tank healing wasn't that big a deal
for Jaraxxus or the Valkyr, and obviously the Champions aren't
tanked in a conventional sense. I can't speak for Anub'arak.
So yeah, Beasts hit pretty hard. But that's the point--it's the big
gear check for the zone. It's supposed to brutalize under-geared or
under-experienced raids that zone in just to take a crack at some
258 loot.
Yeah, I agree with that. While I often emphasize the role of skill
over gear, gear does matter. Yes, you had to wait 5 weeks before
you could get to heroic mode, but that doesn't necessarily mean you
have the gear necessary to blast through that encounter. (And even
if you did, I think we'd all get pretty bored if even moderately
talented raiding guilds were on heroic Anub already.)
I don't yet see too many people saying that bringing a paladin
trivializes Gormok in the way DKs didn't need to kite Vezak, but
we'll see when more guilds have the kill under their belt.
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09/04/09 05:28:42 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
So its ok that DKs and warriors are getting stomped because we have
"a gear deficit".
Everyone is getting stomped by this fight. I have yet to see an
undergeared raid make it through simply because they had a paladin
tank. Meanwhile, plenty of warrior + DK tank pairs have made it
through.
It’s a hard mode and it’s going to be hard. The small
number of bosses means we don’t have as much granularity as
we did in Ulduar to have easier bosses and harder bosses. We might
very well end up nerfing it over time, but it’s too early to
plan on that yet. I increasingly feel that this is a “Hard
mode is too hard” discussion, and I am only fanning the
flames by posting here.
There is a lot of damage coming at your tank, which is appropriate
for a hard mode. We don't want the success or failure of every
fight to be on whether your MT can take two hits before dying,
which was the context of my original "Coliseum is less about
blowing up the tank" comment. While Gormok may put a lot of healing
pressure on you, there is more going on than just the size of his
swings. I regret a little making that original comment because it
seems some people have taken it to mean that tank healing won't be
as challenging. Some of our players are very much looking for a
challenge.
If you just don't like the way we do hard modes, well okay, fine,
but then that discussion should really be in dungeons and raids
where the encounter designers are more likely to see it. For
purposes of this forum, I am more interested in whether picking the
"wrong" tank class is a huge bottleneck for the Northrend Beasts
and I don't believe it is. The beasts themselves may be a
bottleneck though.
Q u o t e:
You say that we don't have the gear to blast the encounter, yet
there are guilds that have blasted through it easily.
Those are very skilled guilds. Many of them did it with a warrior
MT.
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