09/10/09 06:55:24 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Morobir |
Thanks. Thanks so much for basing all
your balancing decisions on a stupid mini-game that 90% of WoW
players don't play and don't care about.
Now that you've nerfed my spec. into the ground I can go into
battlegrounds and get completely destroyed while everyone counters
all 10 seconds of my Bestial Wrath. That will be so much fun. I
could go in untalented and not do much worse.
|
09/10/09 09:08:06 AM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
"I play Alliance, so I don't care
about Horde. You should just remove those guys from the game and
spend more effort on the way I like to play. Me. Not those other
guys. Cool?"
[Not tracked]
|
09/10/09 12:11:21 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
I can tell you are getting irritated.
You guys give yourselves too much credit for being able to irritate
me.
This is a discussion that comes up maybe every other week on these
forums. Maybe the turnover of posters is more frequent then I
imagine. The way I respond to these kinds of discussions every time
is to say that WoW is a game with a PvP and a PvE component. We're
not asking you to like both parts of the game, though I might
suggest that maybe you're missing something if you don't
participate in both.
However, if you are going to participate in the role forums, which
are here for discussions of class mechanics and balance, it is not
acceptable to say that you don't care about PvP or PvE. We care
about both. We balance around both. If you post here, you need to
keep both aspects of the game in mind or your feedback is going to
be of much more limited value.
If you wish that one of those halves didn't exist, that's fine, but
trying to articulate that argument in these forums is an utter
waste of your time (and I rarely ever say that or use those terms
lightly). Similarly, so is saying that WoW should break apart the
PvP and PvE components into different games. You may think that's a
swell idea, but we don't, and this is one of those very few topics
where you aren't going to be able to change our minds even with the
most logical and impassioned argument.
It is perfectly acceptable to talk about the ramifications for PvE
of specific PvP changes and vice-versa. Those kinds of discussions
go on all the time. But the posts that essentially say "I don't
like PvP so I wish nobody else did" within the role forums are more
or less a waste of 1s and 0s. I have made the comparison before to
trying to argue that we should remove the Horde or Alliance --
which are core components of the experience and not open for
debate... just like PvP and PvE.
|
09/10/09 01:11:07 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
See I think the assumption here is that people dont like PVP if
they PVE or PVE if they PVP. I think the reality is that most of us
just dont like the fact you balance pvp on arena because most of us
like the BG implementation of pvp. You implement arena only rewards
(weapons, which is the only way to get them btw, which is retarded
in itself) but most of your playerbase doesnt even like arenas.
Most that actually utilize it do so because you force them to if
they want to get their character decked out in full pvp gear for
what we love to do: BG.
We make balance changes for BG PvP all the time. We make fewer
changes due to world PvP (I'm talking mostly about PvP servers) but
those still exist.
Most of the PvP discussions in these forums tend to focus on Arena
balance because frankly that's what most of the participants here
seem interested in discussing. If I had to guess, it's because you
are constantly running into BG situations in which class balance
makes very little difference, say the other team was smarter with
how they handled the flags. Or maybe you just plain went up against
20 opponents at once, in which even our most naive posters don't
really expect their 51-point talent or whatever to be able to save
them. That's not to say you can't have interesting discussions
about BG strategy or even BG balance issues... but that's not the
purpose of these role forums. Perhaps Arenas just shine a harsher
light on class balance than do BGs.
We have acknowledged that we need to offer better PvP rewards for
players who like BGs over Arenas. You shouldn't assume that means
you can just AFK your way to epics though. You need to win a lot of
BGs to get the best rewards.
Q u o t e:
Arena was the worst idea made by you all. You shouldnt have
seperated arena from BG's. There should have been premade (team
options) vs random queueing just like BG's. You should have gotten
honor and marks for winning. The fact that you have 2 pvp games and
one pve game mean you definitely and obviously value pvp over pve
and that you obviously have to balance PVP more then PVE and
continue to do so.
Oops. But then you kill your argument by coming back to "Arena was
a bad idea." This to me equates to "Adding blood elves was a bad
idea." You're arguing against a core component of the game, one
that a lot of players (including the design staff) happen to enjoy,
and one in which you must take into consideration if you want your
posts in these role forums to carry any weight.
|
09/10/09 05:18:52 PM
Patch 3.2.0a
Ghostcrawler
<Lead Systems Designer> |
Q u o t e:
Having said all that, I strongly disagree with not having
widespread differences between how class abilities work on PvP vs.
PvE targets. This ranges from damage done to CC effects to numerous
other mechanisms. Sure, you've taken a piecemeal approach where you
felt it was appropriate, but this should have been approached
holistically IMO, with an overarching strategy.
It's fine for you to disagree with us. I'm just saying that one of
our core philosophies for WoW is that the same rule set applies to
PvP and PvE. There are exceptions where we can't avoid it, but that
doesn't mean we don't follow that philosophy. That should come as
no surprise to anyone who reads these forums and I will go ahead
and sticky it up above.
I'm willing to entertain almost any kind of discussion on class
abilities, relationships, talents and class balance. There are some
things that are very core to the game though, and the relationship
of PvP to PvE is one of them. There is almost no chance you are
going to convince us to change that philosophy. If you want to post
about it anyway armed with that information, go right ahead.
|
